Note: Today’s Liberal, Woke clerics would burn me at the stake proper if they could…
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You said:
were st john of the cross and st teresa of avila persecuted?
ChatGPT said:
Yes — both St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Ávila were persecuted, though in different ways, and largely from within the Church, not from outside enemies. Their lives are classic examples of intra-ecclesial persecution of reforming mystics.
I’ll lay them out clearly and soberly.
St. John of the Cross (1542–1591) — Severely persecuted
His persecution was extreme and physical.
What happened
- John helped Teresa reform the Carmelite Order toward stricter poverty, prayer, and enclosure.
- Many Carmelites opposed the reform and viewed it as dangerous, disruptive, or prideful.
- In 1577, his own Carmelite brothers kidnapped him.
- He was imprisoned for 9 months in a tiny, dark cell in Toledo:
- Beaten regularly
- Starved
- Humiliated publicly
- Forbidden to say Mass
- He escaped only by a daring nighttime flight.
Why he was persecuted
- Not because of doctrinal error
- But because:
- He challenged comfortable religious life
- He embodied radical interior prayer
- His mystical theology undermined superficial religiosity
- He obeyed conscience and reform over institutional pressure
Aftermath
- Even later in life, he was:
- Sidelined
- Stripped of offices
- Treated as suspect
- He died isolated and marginalized
Many of his greatest poems (e.g., Dark Night) were written in prison.
St. Teresa of Ávila (1515–1582) — Investigated, opposed, humiliated (but not imprisoned)
Her persecution was more psychological, reputational, and institutional.
What happened
- As a woman claiming mystical experiences in 16th-century Spain, she was automatically suspect.
- She was:
- Investigated by the Inquisition (multiple times)
- Accused of being deluded, hysterical, or deceived by demons
- Forbidden at times to write or speak about prayer
- Fellow clergy mocked her visions and reforms.
- She faced fierce opposition founding reformed convents.
Why she was persecuted
- She was:
- A woman teaching prayer
- A mystic with bodily ecstasies
- Reforming an entrenched religious order
- In an age deeply suspicious of mystical women after Protestant upheaval
How she survived it
- Radical obedience to confessors (even bad ones)
- Extreme theological clarity
- Humor, realism, and humility
- She constantly submitted her writings for review
She once said she feared “learned men” more than demons.
Important theological point
Neither saint was persecuted for being heretical.
They were persecuted because:
- They lived ahead of their time
- They exposed mediocrity
- They insisted on interior transformation, not external compliance
- Their mystical prayer could not be controlled
This is a recurring pattern in Catholic history:
Deep contemplatives are often suspected first, vindicated later.
Shared pattern (this matters)
Both Teresa and John experienced:
- Opposition from their own religious brothers/sisters
- Suspicion toward mystical prayer
- Loss of reputation
- Obedience under unjust authority
- Eventual recognition only after death
Canonized decades later, declared Doctors of the Church much later still.
If you want, Michael, I can:
- Compare their persecution to other mystics (Bridget of Sweden, Padre Pio, Catherine of Siena)
- Explain why the Church often mistrusts authentic mysticism at first
- Or map persecution as a discernment marker (carefully, without romanticizing it)