Text below video
Marguerite Porete (c. 1250–1310) — the spelling varies a lot in older sources (Margueritte Perette, Perrete, etc.).
She was a medieval lay mystic, probably a Beguine, and the author of The Mirror of Simple Souls (Le Mirouer des simples âmes), one of the most radical mystical texts of the Middle Ages.
Why she matters:
- She taught a form of annihilation of the soul in God — where the soul, emptied of self-will, lives entirely in divine love.
- Her language pushed hard against moral and ecclesial guardrails, speaking of a soul “beyond virtue” because it is wholly united to God’s will.
- Church authorities judged her teachings dangerous and ambiguous, especially when read without deep theological formation.
What happened to her:
- She was tried by the Inquisition, refused to recant or explain herself, and was burned at the stake in Paris in 1310.
- Her book was condemned — yet it survived, circulated anonymously, and later influenced major mystics.
The irony:
- Though condemned, The Mirror of Simple Souls was later read and admired by figures close to orthodox mysticism, and modern scholars see her as part of the same mystical stream as Meister Eckhart and St. John of the Cross—but expressed without institutional protection.
She’s often cited as a cautionary example of real mystical insight expressed without sufficient theological framing or obedience, especially for laypeople operating outside formal structures.
If you want, I can:
- Place Marguerite Porete on your partial vs. full ecstatic union map
- Compare her annihilation language with St. John of the Cross
- Explain exactly what crossed the line doctrinally — and what didn’t
Just tell me where you want to go next.
Place Marguerite Porete on my partial vs. full ecstatic union map
Alright, Michael — here’s a clean, sober placement of Marguerite Porete on the partial ↔ full ecstatic union map, without sensationalism and without collapsing theology into psychology.
I’ll describe the map first, then place her precisely.
The Map (compressed reminder)
Think of the continuum as four vertical bands, moving upward:
- Affective / Sensory Prayer
(sweetness, warmth, tears, overflow, partial ecstasy possible) - Transforming Union (Passive Night / Deep Purification)
(loss of consolations, will being stripped, obedience tested) - Stable Union of Will (Spiritual Marriage)
(the soul habitually aligned with God’s will; little sensory display) - Full Ecstatic Union / Rapture
(temporary suspension of faculties; God acts directly)
Across the bottom of the map is expression & framing:
- Left: symbolic, obedient, doctrinally guided
- Right: absolute, paradox-heavy, unsupervised language
- Where Marguerite Porete Sits
Vertical placement (state of union):
⬆️ High 3 → touching 4
Marguerite is not a beginner, not merely affective, and not describing early consolations.
She is describing:
A soul emptied of self-will
Love acting without calculation
A lived sense of divine primacy, not emotional waves
That places her at the upper end of transforming union, brushing the language of full union, though not necessarily in repeated bodily rapture.
👉 Important: Full union does not require frequent rapture.
St. John of the Cross makes this explicit.
Horizontal placement (expression & risk):
➡️ Far right
This is where things become dangerous.
Her descriptions:
“Beyond virtue”
“No longer needs moral law”
“Free from concern for merit”
These are experientially intelligible at high union —
but catastrophically unsafe when:
addressed to the general public
detached from vows, obedience, and sacramental framing
She experienced something real, but spoke it without theological brakes.
Visual Summary (textual)FULL ECSTATIC UNION ▲ │ ⚠️ Marguerite Porete │ (touching this zone linguistically, │ not stably living in rapture) │ STABLE UNION OF WILL │ ✔ Authentic depth │ ✖ Unsafe articulation │ TRANSFORMING / PASSIVE NIGHT │ AFFECTIVE / PARTIAL ECSTASY
Why She Was Condemned (and Why She Still Matters)
She wasn’t condemned for claiming union.
She was condemned because she:
refused clarification
rejected ecclesial mediation
spoke absolute truths without pastoral containment
St. John of the Cross says similar things —
but only after pages of negation, warnings, obedience, and humility.
Same altitude.
Very different guardrails.
One Crucial Clarification (relevant to you)
Marguerite Porete is not an example to imitate in expression,
but she is evidence that:
Laypeople can reach very high union
God does sometimes give advanced states outside monasteries
Language becomes dangerous before experience becomes false
That distinction matters a lot.
If you want next, I can:
Overlay your “You Are Here” marker relative to Porete
Contrast her annihilation language with St. John’s “nothing, nothing”
Show how directors today would translate her language safely
Just say the word.
Overlay your “You Are Here” marker relative to Porete
Got it, Michael. I’ll do this carefully and soberly, as promised — an overlay, not an identification, and without affirming conclusions that belong to discernment, not chat.
The Same Map, Now With Two Markers
I’ll keep the same vertical axis (states of union) and horizontal axis (expression / containment).
Legend
◆ = Marguerite Porete (historical placement)
⬤ “You Are Here” = your described experience as you’ve presented it
(phenomenological placement only — not a spiritual verdict)
Vertical Axis: State of UnionFULL ECSTATIC UNION ▲ │ ◆ Porete │ (language touches this zone, │ not continual rapture) │ STABLE UNION OF WILL │ │ ⬤ You Are Here │ (repeated partial ecstasy, │ strong affective + interior draw, │ faculties intact) │ AFFECTIVE / PARTIAL ECSTASY │
What this means (plain language)
Porete is describing a habitual condition of will emptied into God —
even when her language soars into absolutes.
You are describing recurrent partial ecstasy and affective union,
sometimes intense, sometimes intrusive, without loss of consciousness or stable absorption.
That places you below Porete vertically, even when sensations feel strong.
Intensity ≠ altitude.
Horizontal Axis: Expression & ContainmentOBEDIENT / GUIDED ───────────────────────── ABSOLUTE / RISKY ⬤ You Are Here ◆ Porete (seeking language, (assertive, paradox-heavy, asking for mapping, resistant to mediation) distinguishing grace from neurology)
This distinction matters a lot.
You consistently:
ask for boundaries
distinguish mystical grace from neurological overflow
accept maps, cautions, and limits
Porete:
refused clarification
rejected mediation
published absolute language to the unprepared
So even where your sensory experience may feel vivid, your posture is more contained.
That’s the safer side of the map.
The Key Insight of the Overlay
Here’s the clean takeaway:
You are closer to Porete in affective permeability
but far from her in claims, conclusions, and assertions.
And that’s exactly where directors want people to stay.
St. John of the Cross would say:
“Do not measure yourself by what you feel.”
“God often gives sweetness early — and removes it later.”
“The will’s alignment matters more than the fire.”
One Important Guardrail (said gently)
Because your experiences include:
bodily pleasure
sensory amplification
involuntary vocalization
…it is especially important not to:
read yourself upward on the map
interpret future states through Porete’s lens
or assume linear progression
God often intensifies phenomena before He simplifies union.
If you want, next we can:
Move the “You Are Here” marker over time (why states peak, flatten, or disappear)
Show where directors expect sensory effects to fade
Translate Porete’s language into safe modern spiritual direction terms
Just tell me which layer you want to explore.