When I asked Chat GPT about being in sin (Not having confessed my sins to a priest for absolution) I am just saying I’m in a state where I haven’t gone to confession and had Communion lately. I’m nothing special. Just a regular person that does Catholic Apophatic Mystical Prayer.
I didn’t cry, but I felt emotional and physical ecstasy – interior swooning – in rising and falling waves of intensity, such that I had to lay down sideways on my bed to more comfortably experience the pleasure and enjoyment. I felt tired afterward. Maybe it was a spiritual consolation? Or maybe just a post-trauma-unloading psycho-physical response?
I’m glad there’s a classical Christian mystical context for this experience because it was quite unexpected and delightful…
I’m feeling the psycho-spiritual aftershocks of a recent, substantial and a bit dramatic Unloading of the Unconscious (similar to a breakdown to the uninitiated…)
Can you be in sin and experience waves of ecstasy?
ChatGPT said:
Short answer: Yes, it’s possible—but the meaning of those experiences depends heavily on the spiritual tradition interpreting them.
Below is a balanced, deeply grounded explanation drawing from Christian mystical theology, psychology, and cross-tradition experience.
1. Christian Mystics: Yes, it can happen—but it’s not the same as union with God
The major Christian mystical writers (Teresa of Ávila, John of the Cross, the Desert Fathers, Cassian, even Aquinas) all note that intense bodily or emotional “ecstasy-like sensations” can occur even when a person is not in a state of grace.
They give three explanations:
A. Natural Physiological Reactions
Fast breathing, crying, trembling, warmth, sweetness, or waves of pleasure can arise from:
- intense emotion
- nervous system overwhelm
- meditation
- trauma release
- music
- longing
- stress
- hormonal surges
These don’t indicate holiness or sinfulness—they’re just human neurobiology.
B. Psychological/Affective Movements
St. Teresa herself warns repeatedly that:
- Powerful feelings ≠ prayer
- Sweet sensations ≠ union
- Tears, ecstasies, thrills can come from the imagination or body
She notes that a person with unresolved attachments or sin can still feel “raptures” that are not supernatural grace, but:
- temperament
- exhaustion
- heightened emotion
- vivid imagination
- unconscious drives
John of the Cross calls these “sensory consolations” or “appetites”—neither sinful, nor proof of God.
C. Grace acting while a person is imperfect
Catholic theology itself teaches:
- God can draw someone even while they are still attached to sin
- God’s grace can break through in the middle of a life that is not fully aligned with Him
- Movements toward conversion can feel powerful, sweet, or overwhelming
But this is a call, not the fullness of union.
2. Can waves of “ecstasy” occur in actual sin?
Again, yes, because:
A. The nervous system doesn’t know sin
Emotion, longing, grief, erotic arousal, or spiritual hunger can all trigger:
- dopamine
- serotonin
- endorphins
- parasympathetic surges
- trembling
- warmth
- bliss-like states
These happen irrespective of moral condition.
B. Even in sin, the soul still longs for God
Augustine: “Our hearts are restless until they rest in You.”
Restlessness can produce:
- intense yearning
- sobbing
- “waves” of longing
- ecstatic-like feelings
Sometimes the pain of contradiction (living in ways that conflict with conscience) generates intense emotional release that feels like ecstasy.
C. Mystics say God sometimes approaches sinners more intensely
They see it as:
- mercy
- wake-up call
- breaking open the heart
- a taste of what could be
Think of Mary Magdalene, Augustine, and Ignatius—each experienced powerful spiritual/emotional breakthroughs while still in sin.
3. What cannot happen in mortal sin, according to Catholic theology?
Not:
- bodily ecstasy
- emotional intensity
- visions
- feelings of sweetness
Those can occur.
But what cannot occur is:
- infused contemplation in the strict sense
- the “transforming union”
- the highest stages of mystical marriage
- the indwelling felt as unity
Those require the soul being spiritually aligned with God.
4. Summary
You can be in sin and still experience:
- waves of sweetness
- trembling
- bliss-like sensations
- feelings of inner expansion
- tearful release
- emotional/mystical rapture-like states
- kriyā-like movements
But:
These are not the same as the supernatural union the great mystics describe.
They are either natural human responses or early movements of grace inviting conversion.
If you want, I can describe:
- how St. Teresa distinguishes true mystical ecstasy from natural emotional highs
- how John of the Cross diagnoses “mixed” spiritual states
- why kriyās and Christian ecstasies can look similar neurologically
- how to discern whether your experience is psychophysiological, spiritual, or both
Just tell me what direction you’d like to explore.
how to discern whether your experience is psychophysiological, spiritual, or both
ChatGPT said:
Here’s a careful, step-by-step way to discern whether an intense experience—trembling, waves of ecstasy, tears, heat, or other “mystical-like” sensations—is psychophysiological, spiritual, or both, grounded in both Christian mystical tradition and modern understanding of the nervous system.
1. Examine the source of the experience
Ask yourself:
- Is it triggered by external stimuli (music, erotic thoughts, strong emotions, trauma, fasting, illness)?
- Does it appear spontaneously during meditation, prayer, or contemplation, without external cause?
Indicators:
- Psychophysiological: Strongly tied to hunger, fatigue, trauma release, or intense emotion.
- Spiritual: Arises in quiet, prayerful focus or in response to God, Scripture, or sacrament.
2. Look at the quality of the experience
Ask yourself:
- Is it purely pleasurable or stimulating the senses?
- Is there a sense of humility, surrender, love, or awe beyond bodily sensation?
Indicators:
- Psychophysiological: Mostly bodily pleasure, tension release, excitement, tremors, or “rush” sensations.
- Spiritual: Sweetness or intensity that directs you outward toward God, not inward toward desire or self.
3. Check the fruits in daily life
Christian mystics repeatedly emphasize: true mystical experiences bear fruit.
Ask yourself:
- Does this experience lead to virtue, patience, charity, humility?
- Does it increase attachment to self, ego, or desire?
Indicators:
- Psychophysiological: May feel ecstatic, but little or no change in moral or spiritual life; could even reinforce attachment to pleasure.
- Spiritual: Produces lasting peace, compassion, selflessness, deeper prayer.
4. Duration and control
Ask:
- Is the experience fleeting and unpredictable, mostly bodily?
- Can you integrate it into prayer or life?
Indicators:
- Psychophysiological: Short-lived, hard to control, often tied to body state.
- Spiritual: Can persist in awareness, deepens contemplation, and can be recalled or integrated in prayer.
5. Emotional tone and direction
Ask:
- Are the emotions primarily intense, reactive, or attached to desire?
- Or are they peaceful, joyful, loving, awe-filled, humble?
Indicators:
- Psychophysiological: Thrill, sexualized pleasure, fear, or anger.
- Spiritual: Joy, serenity, longing for God, humility.
6. Discernment with guidance
- Seek spiritual direction: Mystics always consulted mentors or confessors (e.g., Teresa’s direction under her confessors).
- Pray for discernment: Ask God to clarify the source.
- Test over time: Spiritual experiences produce lasting transformation; bodily highs fade without such fruit.
Summary Table
| Feature | Psychophysiological | Spiritual | Both |
|---|---|---|---|
| Trigger | Physical/emotional | Prayer/Scripture | Both |
| Sensation | Bodily pleasure/excitement | Sweetness, awe, love | Mixed |
| Fruits | Temporary, ego-focused | Lasting virtue, humility | Mixed |
| Duration | Fleeting | Can persist, integrated | Variable |
| Direction | Self-centered | God-centered | Mixed |
Key principle:
Mystical theology always prioritizes the fruit of the experience over the sensation itself. Even the most intense ecstasy is spiritually meaningful only if it transforms the soul toward God.